Caveman's Watch Forum

Mechanical watches are impractical toys for snobs. >>

Posted By: Ricky Lee McBroom
Date: Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:10 a.m.

I know that's a bold statement. And, yes, it was purposely intended to 'stir the pot' a little. Please, please PLEASE don't flame me.

And, no, I don't really believe it. Not in my heart. I love 'em, too. But, sad to say, I also think there is a grain of truth in the statement.

'twas a post from Brian Uziel that finally forced me to conclude that my experiences with mechanical watches are not unique:

> I don't think that this indicates any
> weakness in Russian watches, but a
> general weakness in the knowledge and
> skills of "watchmakers."

That's certainly been my experience, not specifically with watches, but moderately-priced mechanical watches in general. If there's a Real Watch-Maker left in the Memphis, Tennessee metro area, I certainly haven't been able to locate them. And I've tried, believe me!

Discounting the top few high-end brands, , , and perhaps , I am forced to conclude that mechanical watches are best treated as disposable. Just like a VCR or DVD player - doesn't make sense to even attempt to get a broken one fixed. Just chuck it in the bin and buy a new one. Way more cost-efficent, and lots less grief and heartache.

> With more and more places refusing to
> even take a look inside the watch, I
> stay leaned toward inexpensive pieces
> that I won't miss..

Great minds think alike.

Personally, I find it to be a sad state of affairs. But as far as I can see, that's the reality of it. If your broken mechanical watch is a modestly-priced brand, then you're SOL, plain and simple.

-Ricky

Brian's original post

Messages In This Thread

Mechanical watches are impractical toys for snobs. >> (views: 303)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:10 a.m.

They're also symbols of modernism and appreciation of craftsmanship (views: 7)
Rasmus_DK -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:46 p.m.

You don't have to be a snob, but you do have to afford toys... (views: 26)
Brian Uziel -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 9:28 a.m.
sometimes that analogy gets too real when one breaks.

Simple answer >>> (views: 99)
Reto -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 6:13 a.m.
Dear all
Ricky's story is exactly what made me "keep my Australian watch tutor in Thailand". When I had the chance to convince Rob to stay here in Thailand and have him as an occasional watch tutor (and of course we also like to exchange thoughts about many other topics then watches) then I of course grabbed it.
Not purely out of egoistic objectives, but knowing it would be very difficult to maintain a larger collection like mine without paying a lot of money for the good quality service. Mind you, I am in Thailand where it is not really easy to assess the quality of the work too.
Thus it is really simple: learn to do the basics yourself. And to me, this was a natural process really. I had so many watches that buying new watches did not really make sense anymore. It was time to look at WHAT I HAD. And WHAT WAS INSIDE.
So my tutor advised me on how to extend my exisiting watch tool box and then we went through a couple of watch services. Not many actually, but the tutoring helped to boost my confidence and skill set.
And that is why I am not afraid to open any of my watches today and have a first look at what could be wrong.
It takes patience, it takes a good tool box and it takes a bit of courage. But if you really want, you can do it.
And a last work regarding the right tools. Watch tools are amazingly INEXPENSIVE. Last night I got a tool that I should have bought in the late 80ies, that is when I started to do simple watch works. This hammer below makes driving split pins back in place so easy, I really feel stupid not having bought one of those hammers with a soft end before!
If you have the right tools, it is a lot easier. And it does not take too many tools and the cost of them will also be a lot less then 90% of the watches you are buying. It is all about making a first step! And if you feel you could not do it on your own, then for you guys in the USA! there is always the TZ Watch School.
Best regards
Reto

 Great answer! Thanks, , to you and to all.. >> (views: 40)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 11:03 p.m.
..who realized that, despite the provocative subject line, I was only playing Devil's Advocate. I firmly believe that if you're gonna play DA, you need to put a little o' the devil in it. 
Yes, learning to  is the simple (and obvious!) answer. I'm trying. I do my own battery changes, of course, and also bracelet sizing, crystal replacements, etc. Movement swaps, even. Heck, I've successfully done a few jackleg clean & oil jobs.. at least the watches still run, so technically 'successful', though I've never been 100% happy with the results..
But will I ever get to the point where I'll be able to completely strip, clean, and reassemble a movement? Probably not.
The watch that's been so frustrating to me in this regard is my Marina Militare GMT. The only thing wrong with it is a broken stem. Manufacturing flaw, I reckon, as it snapped when I pulled the crown out to set the time. Ironic failure, given the whacking great crown guard on these watches.  Also frustrating, to have such a simple failure put a watch that is, for all intents and purposes brand-new, out of action. 
I've e-mailed the  seller, several times, hoping to be able to obtain a replacement stem. No answer. Also tried a couple of online sources for 'generic' parts, and no joy either. The few that did reply gave me a terse "Sorry, can't help you." Most locals, once they ken that it's a cheap Chinese-made jobbie, aren't willing to look any further. The few brave souls who have.. well, the routine seems to be to hold on to the watch for a week or so, then give the same "Sorry, can't help you" answer. I feel pretty silly having invested all this precious time into trying to fix a watch in which, monetarily, I've invested barely an hour's pay. Madness!
Paradoxically, I could manufacture a custom replacement stem myself. I have a complete billion-dollar machine shop at my disposal, after all. Everything from a $100K video comparator to measure it, a state-of-the art workstation running the industry leading CAD/CAM 'ware (Unigraphics NX*) to CNC program it, to a $400K Swiss-type turning center to turn the bytes into finished metal. Heck, I've even got overflowing bins of surplus/scrap metal to choose from.. I could make it out of anything from titanium to 455 stainless.
But this would require probably a whole weekend of my time. And time is precious. I ask you, is it worth that sort of effort for a $50 watch?
I'm stubborn enough that I may eventually do it.. but I don't really want to, you know? One, because the pragmatist in me says it's silly. And two, because I'm so absurdly tenacious (some would say obsessive compulsive ) that if I started down that road, I'd not be able to rest 'til it was done, even if that took a week instead of a weekend. And THAT would mean a pretty good chance of either getting fired or divorced.. 
-Ricky

My repair story (views: 105)
tiger81 -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 2:16 a.m.
In 1973 my mom gave me a Gruen autowind as a high school graduation present. In my last month of college it took a shot in a softball game collision and began it stop and start while being worn. So I put it away in my sock draw, then in 1999 I was at a party and was introduced to the guy was the owner of the shop in the New Orleans French Quarter where my mom had purchased it. I told him about the watch and he told me he could look at it and give me a repair estimate. For about $50 it's running again with the original movement in it. Wearing that old Gruen just felt different than wearing a quartz watch .
It's much more practical to OWN a Quartz watch but it's the IMPRACTICAL nature of a mechanical watchs that make them irresistable( Watches are like women in that respect) So as a result of that $50 repair I've bought a few more mechanicals and visit this forum everyday and read posts from people say and do impractical things.
For the most part no one notices what's on my wrist so I don't thing there's any great prestige in wearing a mechanical watch (My wealtiest friend wears a Timex from Walgreens) Mechanical watches are impractical and I could think of dozens of reasons not to buy one and dozens of toys to spend money on that make more sense. But with my own business to run, a wife,2 daughters in school, and 2 parents in there late 70s, I'm forced to be practical from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep, except for that minute I spend picking out which watch I'm going to wear that day and the time I spend on this forum.
I need those minutes of impracticallity.

Well said. Sometimes the moments of impracticality are what keep you sane. (views: 5)
jud whidden -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 1:19 p.m.

When you factor in sentimental value.. >> (views: 14)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 11:24 a.m.
..all bets are off, of course. Great story indeed.. thanks for sharing it!

> ..it's the IMPRACTICAL nature of a mechanical
> watchs that make them irresistable( Watches
> are like women in that resrect)

  

 
-Ricky

BTW are you still in N.O. I'm in Gulfport, Miss. (views: 8)
Kelly M. Rayburn -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 4:42 a.m.

Great Story!!! (views: 7)
John Schneitman -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 4:04 a.m.

Well said. (views: 8)
waco kid -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 3:41 a.m.

Neat story - that guy wasn't by chance Julio of "Quarter Past Time", was he? (views: 11)
TakesALickin' -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 3:07 a.m.

Great read, hope you'd post more often. (views: 8)
Adam in NYC -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 2:48 a.m.

(views: 7)
Kelly M. Rayburn -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 2:38 a.m.

plenty of mech watch repairers by mail, over the net (views: 17)
Tom Connelly -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 1:39 a.m.

Been called worse... mainly by those who don't get it. You either do... or you don't The choice is yours... (views: 18)
LTM -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 1:08 a.m.

I look at them like a hobby. Most of my associates either golf, have a boat, or a motorcycle.. (views: 49)
jud whidden -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:57 a.m.
..I don't have any of these things, I spend my hobby money on watches, mostly mechanical, some quartz. Therefore, to me it's not about practicality, if it were I'd own one G-Shock and be done. I guess I'm saying I somewhat fit your "impractical toys for snobs" label!

I'm VERY impractical in the motorycle department. (views: 8)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 11:15 a.m.

It's not just watches Ricky >> (views: 76)
Chris L -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:40 a.m.
Any inexpensive item is impractical to repair. I just recently bought a $140 lawnmower to replace the very broken $140 mower that I had just purchased 15 months prior. It actually made me mad that I wasted the time to change oil and spark plug this spring. It would have been a minimum $60 charge for any kind of repair, likely more, so why even bother. In the past year I have also replaced a snow-blower and a leaf-blower for the same reasons.
In my field of work, I am called upon to repair photocopiers and fax machines that really should be shot and put out of it's misery. There are a lot of people that won't think twice about spending $200 to fix a disposable copier that sells for $350 new. Still saving $150 in their minds, even if it will likely have more problems over the next year or so.
Brian's post was actually in response to me asking for references for a watchmaker to repair I watch that I purchased for about $170. I only got to enjoy it for 2 days before I dropped it by my own clumsiness and broke the balance of the movement. In this case I am very willing to throw more good money after bad because this is a watch that rarely comes up for sale, and I got a good price on it to begin with. I likely will NOT do something like spend $250 on a new chrono with the same movement and pay for somebody to swap movement, that would be nuts. But if I can get it repaired for $200 or less, I'm open to that idea. I just have to put out enough feelers and see what can be done. My reasons for doing this are mine and anybody else can have their opinion about that, it won't really effect what I do.

True enough, which is why I mentioned.. >> (views: 11)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 11:13 a.m.
..VCRs in my original post. But I do realize that many other inexpensive devices which we normally think of as 'hard goods' fall into the same category. It's just that I've had bad luck with VCRs, so they sprung immediately to mind. 

> ..repair. I just recently bought a $140 lawnmower
> to replace the very broken $140 mower that I had
> just purchased 15 months prior.

Wow. I hadn't considered lawn & garden equipment to be in the 'disposable' category.. 'til now. 

> ..people that won't think twice about spending
> $200 to fix a disposable copier that sells for
> $350 new. Still saving $150 in their minds..

Right. But would they spend $700 to get that same disposable copier repaired? That's basically what I did in the case of the Seiko I referred to in my reply to Kelly. As I said, it seemed like a good idea at the time. In retrospect, it just seems dumb. 

> ..even if it will likely have more problems
> over the next year or so.

Then they realize the error of their ways when it does break down again... 

> Brian's post was actually in response to
> me.. My reasons for doing this are mine
> and anybody else can have their opinion
> about that, it won't really effect what
> I do.

And rightly so.

I certainly hope you're able to get the chrono repaired, Chris. Broken after only two days.. Man, that had to hurt. 

-Ricky

Mechanicals do not have to be repaired that often. . . (views: 107)
Kelly M. Rayburn -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:32 a.m.
If you buy a new mechanical watch that functions properly upon receipt, generally it will be years before you have to do any service, and that is when you are wearing it constantly. Frankly, there is really no point in servicing a mechanical watch until it starts being inaccurate to a certain degree.
A $50.00 Seiko 5 may cost that much to service, but 2-3 times in twenty years doesn't seem like much of an outlay for the joy of owning a mechanical watch. Of course, the more mechanical watches we own, the more we spend on service costs. I will only wear most of my watches for the equivalent of 4 or 5 years during the remainder of my lifetime. The only watches that I have ever had to spend much money on are 1) vintage mechanicals that I purchased without knowing the service history and wanted to put them in running "like new" status; and 2) Quartz watches. I have never thrown out a mechanical watch because it died, but I have done that with countless quartz watches (where replacing the movement was the option) over the years.
As for qualified watchmakers. As long as the manufacturer that made the watch still exists, there should be no problem having the watch serviced. True, many communities suffer from lack of qualified watchmakers (like mine)but I have managed to always find someone elsewhere to do the service.
Are mechanical wristwatches necessary? No. But then neither are quartz wristwatches. No one really needs to wear a watch anymore and I know many people who don't wear one. Having a mechanical watch is like having more than one pair of shoes, a nice car, two television sets, a microwave oven, and cable t.v. But does that make the owner a snob? Of course not. They are an affordable choice, and life without choices would be very boring indeed.

Well said, indeed! >> (views: 14)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 10:51 a.m.
>..A $50.00 Seiko 5 may cost that much to service, but
> 2-3 times in twenty years doesn't seem like much

Put that way then, no, it doesn't seem so bad. However, I had a Seiko 5 serviced a little over a year ago, and it was $90-something. True, I did get the crystal replaced, too. In any case, while it seemed like a good idea at the time, I wouldn't do it again.

> The only watches that I have ever had to
> spend much money on are 1) vintage mechanicals
> that I purchased without knowing the service
> history and wanted to put them in running "like
> new" status;

I've got one such piece - my ca. 1965 Citizen Alarm/Date - that I've been toying with sending to IWW for a spa treatment. Trouble is, it still runs perfectly and, as you say, it doesn't make a lot of sense to get a mechanical serviced until it shows inaccuracy. 'tis only a couple of small cosmetic flaws that have me contemplating getting it serviced...

> As for qualified watchmakers. As long as the
> manufacturer that made the watch still exists,
> there should be no problem..

Does it make sense to send a $30  back to Russia for servicing, though? Remember, I was referring specifically to very Poor Man's Watches.. 

> life without choices would be
> very boring indeed.

Amen!

-Ricky

Well said! (views: 10)
TakesALickin' -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:52 a.m.

I"m in memphis too (views: 48)
jeff stanley -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:18 a.m.
I can get them fixed pretty easy, "watchmaker" I'm not so sure.

Who do you use, Jeff? The only.. >> (views: 14)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 10:29 a.m.
..one I'd found who seemed even half way competent, Fitzpatricks on Elvis Preseley, closed up shop a couple of monts back.

Why not pop in a new movement? 7S26s for example, if yours breaks, throw away movement, not watch? (views: 23)
Thomas -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:16 a.m.

A viable solution if.. >> (views: 12)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 10:23 a.m.
..replacement movements are readily available. Still, I wonder if it makes sense from an economic standpoint, if the watch was originally under, say, $100.

Most watchmakers are aging. (views: 20)
Adam in NYC -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:16 a.m.

I have the pleasure to anounce that at least two in my home town are under 35 (views: 9)
PN -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 8:33 a.m.

I'd say quartz watches are more "disposable" than mechanicals. (views: 20)
Stef G -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:13 a.m.

Have to agree, actually. >> (views: 13)
Ricky Lee McBroom -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 10:15 a.m.
Certainly many quartz watches get thrown into the sock drawer and forgotten, if not actually thrown away, when all they need is a battery. My wife had three like that..  And one was an Elgin 7-jewel that had to've been a failry expensive piece, in it's day.
Then, too, I see non-functioning quartz watches by the hundreds at fleamarkets. Some decent pieces among them, too, and in reasonably good shape cosmetically. Odds are all they need is a battery...
We live in a disposable society, I reckon. 
-Ricky
I agree, my wife had a watch I thought was ruined, the movement was replaced and it was ticking again for 12.5 euros! (views: 20)
Paulo -- Monday, 8 August 2005, at 12:26 a.m.

  < Back to My Watch Collection >